Notes Job (Lars Roland from www.softcom.dk - fraud)

Discussion in 'Lotus Notes Programming' started by mb¤, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. mb¤

    mb¤ Guest

    A while ago the guy named Lars Roland posted in this group the proposal for a small "Notes Job".

    Mr Roland has leed me to believe that he has a job for me, but, it's now obvious, he just wanted me
    to give him some more info about his problem - for free. I wasted two days for analisys and
    development.

    In the response to this post I'm posting the full corespondence between the two of us over the two
    weeks.
     
    mb¤, Jul 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. mb¤

    mb¤ Guest

    It started like this:

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    Hy Roland,
    I have more then five years of experience in programming with LN.

    So, what's the job about?

    PS ÿBe sure you include info on the following:

    ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ How much time you predict it'll take to do it?

    ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿ Specify the pay.

    Sencerely,


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    Hi thanks for you fast feedback.



    The job should be done in a day or two (my old Notes programmer said he could do it in a day)

    We will pay you 500$ USD when the job is done (you can get some money up front if you like,

    but not all of them). If this is not enough then perhaps you can get some more money.



    The job is a small one.

    You should create an nfs file that will add 3 buttons to the main mail view.

    - The first button should take the an given email and extract all of the emails

    header and body information put all this information in a file and mail it to a

    given address

    - The second button should do the same as the first one, the only difference is with

    the name of the inserted file.

    - The third button should just copy the entire selected email into an windows (or even better the
    clipboard)



    If you have acces to microsft outlook, then I can mail you a program that does this

    so you can see aht you should do in Lotus Notes.

    The copyright of the code should go to us - and the notes user should be able to easy uninstall

    the buttons.

    Regards:

    Lars Roland.


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    Hi Lars,

    after the analisys of "the job", my conclusion is that it's going to take

    at least two days.

    Since my company gharges 400EUR programmer per day, and I'm doing it on my

    own, in my private time, I 'll need you to pay me 600EUR in total for two

    days of programming. That'll be 200EUR in advance and 400EUR after the job is

    done (you'll understand that I have to have an assurance - so as you).

    If this is acceptable for you let me know, so I can send you (when I come

    home in the afternoon) my account number and detail questions about the job

    (I can start working today).

    Please send me the MS Outlook example.

    Regards,


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    here is the outlook version - the notes version does not need all the same functionalyty.

    I hope you understand that I cannot go around sending money

    without some profe that you do the job, not that I dont trust you. So if you have a refrence to

    some work you have done or something else I can show my boss, then I can wire you the money.

    But look at the outlook version and tell me what you think.

    Regards.

    Lars Roland


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    It is ok with my boss to send you the money up front. Just analyse the outlook addin and tell me if
    you can create

    an striped down version in two days or if you need more time.

    Are you on messenger ?

    Regards Lars Roland.

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    OK, I understant the job completely.

    You want to be able to define settings (to whom the mail will go to, cc,

    and so on...), I'll do it by action button "Settings" ( in a profile

    document).


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    Hi

    My boss was happy with the little app you send me, so I got good to go.

    I only need to find out if there is any problem in wiring money to aa account in Croatia.

    I will phone my bank for some info on that subject.

    Your install feature was just fine but it is also important that it is easy to uninstall.

    I hope you understand that we only need some of the functionalyty of the outlook version.

    A button to report spam, a button to report ham (the same as the first one the only

    difference is the name of the attached filed) and an option to vies the enitire email source

    (like the copy to clipboard button). So you will end up adding somting like this to the default mail
    view.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    | Report | Report | View e-mail | Options |

    | SPAM | HAM | Source | |

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Have you understood the concept of the report buttons - it is important that all of the email

    gets reported (both email header and body).



    Regards.



    Lars Roland.


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    It's a deal!

    I'll send you my account number as soon as I get home (around 7:00 pm).

    Of course, I'll start working the second I verify the prepayment is on the

    account, so please let me know that you've deposited the prepayment (200EUR).

    Thank YOU for professional proposal!

    I am sure that we'll both be satisfied after this little project and that

    we'll do more business in the future.

    Regards,


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    Yes just mail me it and I will try to get our banking department to send you the money tomorrow.

    I do however have no idea how fast you will get them, I have never send mony to a bank outside my
    own contry.

    Also we have lots of Lotus Notes jobs and we have just lost our Lotus Notes expert so If you are
    looking for

    more work, and if you complete this first job well, it would be great if we could outsource some
    development to you.

    Would you be interested in that ??

    My boss wants to know how certain you are, that you can handle this from within the budget - We have
    a written proposial

    with a company in poland, they say it can be done for 700EUR, So it is important for my boss that I
    stay below that amount.



    Regards

    Lars Roland.


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    Hi,

    Installation and uninstallation will be performed by the action on the

    Actions menu (in the Mail.ntf template database, on which I'll work) and

    will be developed by hiding and unhiding those four actions (it's that

    simple), of course - if it's suitable for you.

    Regarding copying mail information to clipboard - in the file I attached

    (MailFields.txt) you can see all fields (information) from your last mail

    extracted from Lotus/Notes. You can tell me if you want only specific

    fields copied in the clipboard (by clicking on the third button) or all of

    them (just disable Format - WordWrap in the Notepad after opening it - to

    get the formatted display).

    After I analyzed your demands I calculated that it'll take around two days

    (600EUR) and that's it!

    If it shall take one more day it'll go on my cost.

    I am interested in doing more jobs for you (if everything will go as smooth

    and professional as it went so far), I can even include more developers,

    because I have friends who are CLPs (Certified Lotus Professionals) who

    work with me.

    Regards,


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    Sounds great I think we should just start with this small project (the other projcts are

    bigger and more complex - 1000 to 10.000 EUR projects, so we need to find a way of

    woking tother that is acceptabel for both of us, before starting with those).

    All of the Lotus projects that we take part of will be released as open source (we make our money

    fighting spam and virus, not from selling small tools - the outlook version is freely avalibel on
    the

    internet, and I would like the same to happen to the Lotus Notes version).

    Look at the following link about reporting SPAM mails to SpamCop using lotus notes,

    we need the same information as them.

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/25.html

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/361.html

    and

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html

    I have Lotus Notes installed so you can just mail me snapshots of your development then I can test
    it.

    (I developed the outlook version and tried staring on a notes version but never realy found out how
    to

    do it - developing notes is much different frm doing outlok/exchange developent)

    The install/uninstall process sounds easy so it is okay (will this also work if people already have
    altered mail.ntf ??)

    Regards. Lars Roland.


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    Sounds great I think we should just start with this small project (the other projcts are

    bigger and more complex - 1000 to 10.000 EUR projects, so we need to find a way of

    woking tother that is acceptabel for both of us, before starting with those).

    All of the Lotus projects that we take part of will be released as open source (we make our money

    fighting spam and virus, not from selling small tools - the outlook version is freely avalibel on
    the

    internet, and I would like the same to happen to the Lotus Notes version).

    Look at the following link about reporting SPAM mails to SpamCop using lotus notes,

    we need the same information as them.

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/25.html

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/361.html

    and

    http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/19.html

    I have Lotus Notes installed so you can just mail me snapshots of your development then I can test
    it.

    (I developed the outlook version and tried staring on a notes version but never realy found out how
    to

    do it - developing notes is much different frm doing outlok/exchange developent)

    The install/uninstall process sounds easy so it is okay (will this also work if people already have
    altered mail.ntf ??)

    Regards. Lars Roland.

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    Oh, that's what you want to do, send it to SpamCop.

    That's OK, but, because of the time we have for development, you (or the

    Domino administrator in the company) will have to manually copy the new

    folder (folder with our actions) to each user's mail db (If we had two more

    days I would use C++ API and automatically copy our folder to the user's

    mail db - I mean the user would receive only executable file -

    installation).

    Pick one of the following two solutions:

    1. ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿWe make a separate, special folder, (not do it in inbox or any

    other view) because of the thing you mentioned (user my have already

    altered existing views and folders). So the user will have to move the

    document to our folder from Inbox and then select all the docs he want to

    process and trigger the action button.

    2. ÿ ÿ ÿ ÿWe can create agent (for every button) so it wouldn't be the

    action on the folder, but the command in Actions menu (I've attached the

    picture showing this option).



    Since you said you will not be available tomorrow, please send me someone

    else's mail address (someone who may be asked question about development of

    this project - in case I start tomorrow).

    I'll analyze the links you sent me (and determine which fields the SpamCop

    needs) when I start working on this project.



    Regards,

    __________________________________

    Marko


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    Hi

    I am here today (I send someone else to the meeting) - do you have MSN messenger ?

    About the job - the installation should be easy (just as the program you send me), so what do you
    suggest ?

    (I am thinking that we make this whitin the budget and then I tell my boss that if he want an
    installer so the user can

    install it without any adminitrsator intermission, then he has to pay for 2 more days - what do you
    think ?)

    I like the view that you displayd in solution number two. I have written what I think the program
    should do.

    -----------------------------------------

    1) Options dialog - the user should be able to specify which address he wants to send

    reports to (default to ) and if an spam

    mail should be deleted after reporting it (default is yes - the mail should be deleted).

    2) Whitelist / HAM - This button should report the email in an attachment to an email send to

    the email address specified in the options dialog - the attachment should have

    the name "whitelist-DATE.txt". Do not delete the email after reporting it.

    When the user click this action he should be precended with an dialog

    asking him to confirm that he wants to do this.

    3) Blacklist / SPAM - This button should report the email in an attachment to the email address
    specified in the options dialog

    the attachment should have the name "blacklist-DATE.txt". Check options to find out if the email
    should

    be deleted after reporting it. When the user click this action he should be precended with an dialog

    asking him to confirm that he wants to do this.

    4) View mail source (like the copy to clipboard function int the outlook version)

    5) IMPORTAND - it is importand that the email reported (the one in the attachment that gets send to
    us) contains the entire email header

    and email source. The email should be formated just like it says on spamcops site.

    Regards.

    Lars Roland


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    Hi Lars,

    to make a payment just address it to:.....


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    I have forwarded this to our banking department and told them to pay you 200EUR - they will hopfully
    transfer the money today.

    I have no idea about how long it takes for money to come from Denmark to Croatia - it takes upto 3
    days for us to send money to

    Russia, so it could take the same time.



    Regards,

    Lars Roland

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    Hi,

    I have MSN Messenger, but it's not convinient for me to use it while I'm

    working, I prefer this mean of comunication.

    We can meet on MSN in the afternoon, when I get home?

    Your proposal for automating the installation is OK.

    Please, understand that I said 2 days when I knew only that you need 3

    simple buttons on a view. Everything else was added afterwords and it's

    still 2 days, so please if you have some more demands (or any other

    information about the project) now it's time to mail it to me.

    Don't get me wrong here, your proposal about automatic installation (2 more

    days) is more than fair, I just want to emphasize that I have to know

    everything that's expected from me, not to find out bit by bit about

    features (i.e. SpamCop) :)

    Now questions:

    1)

    All clear.

    2)

    Just verify this: You want me to create file (which will have the

    head and body of the e-mail selected in the view) and send it (attached in

    an empty e-mail) to address specified in settings?

    You say that: "the attachment should have the name

    "whitelist-DATE.txt"." - Do you want me to save the

    attachment somewhere on hard disk?

    You say that: "When the user click this action he should be

    precended with an dialog asking him to confirm that he wants to do this."

    - do you want me to prompt the user (in that dialog) with the E-mail

    address (specified in the settings) so he can change it?

    3)

    You say that: "Check options to find out if the email should be deleted

    after reporting it. When the user click this action he should be precended

    with an dialog asking him to confirm that he wants to do this."

    - The same question as before: do you want me to prompt the user (in

    that dialog) with the E-mail address (specified in the settings) and the

    check box "Delete the e-mail after sending?" (Default - also taken from

    settings) so he can change it?

    4)

    You say that: "View mail source (like the copy to clipboard function int

    the outlook version)" - Here you want me to put the same data

    that will be in the attachment if the action 2 or 3 is choosen - in the

    clipboard?

    5)

    You say that: "it is importand that the email reported (the one in the

    attachment that gets send to us) contains the entire email header and email

    source. The email should be formated just like it says on spamcops site."

    - Which mail is sent to you?

    That's it.



    Did you get the account number?

    __________________________________

    Marko

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    Well I can understand what you are saying - I think it is mostly because I am used to communicate
    with programmers that work in the same rome as me.

    I will rewrite the outlook specification for so it fits into Lotus Notes and ask for 5 days funding
    (300Eur pr. day thats 1500Eur pr. day). Then I will send you the specification and you can see if
    you can do it whithin the timelimit, if you can then I will insert 300Eur on you bank account and we
    are good to go.

    this is much better for the both of us.



    Regards.

    Lars Roland



    PS: i will travel to USA next week I will see if I can have the specification ready before that



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    Hi Lars,
    there's really no need to rewrite the specs.
    Just answer the questions I asked, so that everything is crystall clear to
    me (those are mostly suggestions, not inclarities).
    And there's really no need to make changes to my pay (you missunderstood
    me, I didn't want to get more money, I just wanted to make our little
    project better. I managed a few projects and (you'll understand - you've
    been programming on someone else's specifications, right?) when the specs.
    are growing bigger and bigger, that's always potential brakedown, because
    you make one "plan" using first specs. and then something else commes up
    and you have to change the base of everything you did so far (in Lotus it's
    really hard to encapsulate things and make it object oriented). I just
    wanted to avoid similar repercusions to our little project).
    Uh...

    Now, I really think that I can finish (what we agreed yesterday) in two
    days, using the specification I've got. So my suggestion is that we call
    this "the first phase of the project" and that we even allow it not to be
    perfect (I'm speaking of Install.exe that we won't have, instead we'll have
    4 agents which you'll have to copy to the user's mail db). Then in "the
    second phase" I'll develop the automatics. These two parts of development
    are not in colision (the second part picks up where the first has ended).
    The whole process won't be any longer because of that "two parts" system,
    it can only be better because you'll see the first part and we'll be able
    to make changes on it if that will be necessary.
    Let this be a kind of a "two-way" test.

    Let me know if this suits you, or you would rather like it your way
    (everything in one go).

    Regards,

    ______
    Marko

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    I am still waiting for my boss to make up his mind about which direction to go



    Regards Lars Roland


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    Hi Lars,

    Any news?

    If not - when do you expect to have the information?

    But, bear in mind that we don't need that info to finish the first phase (decribed in one of my
    previous e-mails) of the project, then when we get the info we'll just continue with development (or
    not).



    In your mail from wednesday, 07.07, you said:
    Till now I haven't received any incomes to my account, could you please check with your banking
    department?

    Regards,

    ______

    Marko


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    Since then I have tried to phone him a few times but with no luck (he was there but he was very
    busy).

    I wouldn't say a word if only he has notified me that he has no longer need for my services.
     
    mb¤, Jul 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Marko,

    interesting. I also offered to do the job, but having some
    experience with hollow job offers I asked him for a short
    problem definition in writing, something that would take him
    perhaps 15 minutes.

    This is a simple method to test the commitment. He never
    replied.

    It is interesting that I also estimated something around two
    days. In fact, you can rarely do anything in one day, because
    the communications alone take some time.

    Hans-Georg
     
    Hans-Georg Michna, Jul 27, 2004
    #3
  4. mb¤

    mb¤ Guest


    I'm thinking maybe of contacting the press in Denmark about the whole thing, maybe even the Danish
    Economic chamber.
    So if there was any similar situations - just post it here.
     
    mb¤, Jul 27, 2004
    #4
  5. mb¤

    Lars Roland Guest

    Hi

    this is an error from my side I was on vercation and I am tlaking with
    marco on this
     
    Lars Roland, Jul 27, 2004
    #5
  6. mb¤

    mb¤ Guest

    Yesterday Lars contacted me and he really was on vacation, and since we didn't agreed on due date it
    seems that I overreacted about the whole thing,
    I hope everybody will understand my position, because two months ago I was caught in a real fraud,
    so I just thought: "here's another one" and have acted in a heat of the moment.

    Sorry Lars, I hope you and your company can except my apologies.
     
    mb¤, Jul 28, 2004
    #6
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